
-------- TML Message #33 --------

Date: 29 Jul 87 08:46 EST
From: DAVIS JONATHAN E             <gatech!seismo!steinmetz!csbvax!DAVISJE@tektronix>
Subject: Commerce Raider ship design
Archive-Message-Number: 33


Date: 29-JUL-1987 08:27
>From: Jon Davis
Sender: DAVISJE
Subject: Commerce Raider ship design
To: edison!uvacs!ncsu!mcnc!decvax!ihnp4!tektronix!dadla!traveller@kbsvax@smtp@tcpgateway
- --------
This ship appeared in the Adventure Class Ships, Vol. 1 by FASA.
Copyright 1981, by FASA


Chameleon Class

Commerce Raider   AR-81337E2-A00000-40509-0  MCr 443.6  800 tons
                  Batteries bearing 1 1 1    TL=15
                  Batteries         1 1 1    Crew = 15

Low Berths=4 Cargo=100  Fuel=290   EP=50  Agility=3  Troops=10


	Tonnage:	800 tons (standard).
	Crew:		15. 10 troops.
	Performance:	Jump-3. 3-G. Power Plant-7. 50 EP. Agility 3.
	Electronics:	Model/5fib computer.
	Hardpoints:	One fifty ton weapons bay and five hardpoints.
	Armaments:	One fifty ton missile bay. Four particle
			accelerator barbettes. One triple beam laser
			turret.
	Defenses:	Armored hull (factor-A).
	Craft:		None.
	Fuel Treatment:	Fuel scoops installed. No purification plant.
	Cost:		MCr 554.5 standard. MCr 443.6 in quantity.
	Construction:	24 months.

Comments: Every pirate's dream is to own and operate a ship like this.
Code named Chameleon by law enforcement authorities, a single ship of 
this class of commerce raiders can easily take on any regular merchant
of up to 2000 tons. Its heavy armaments cause most merchant captains
to give up upon contact.

Details: The upper deck contains most of the living quarters. The twelve
staterooms can berth up to 24 crew members.  Each stateroom is furnished
with a bunkbed, a storage desk, and the usual wardrobe-sanitary closet.
Larger rooms will usually have an extra cabinent.  In the forward 
section of this deck are the four particle accelerator barbettes. Access
to the sole laser turret is through the central stairway.  Aside from 
the engineering spaces, the only other feature on this deck is the three
storage lockers.  These can hold anything from weapons to extra personal
effects.
	The main deck has the bridge, which is always manned, the 
computer, sick bay, and galley.  The recreation space on this ship is 
very limited.  Meals are prepared and stored in the galley and are 
eaten forward in the only common area on the ship.  The large number of 
airlocks enables pirates to swarm around and aboard any victim's craft.
The large EVA prep and storage area provides vacc suits and jet packs.
	The lower deck contains the cargo bay and the missile bay. The 
cargo bay has three large access doors for quick loading.  When space
is available, most off duty crew members can be found here.

(One disadvantage I see to this ship is the lack of small craft for 
transport and boarding purposes.  But then again, nobody said that 
piracy wasn't without its risks...)

- --------



-------- TML Message #34 --------

From: hplabs!hpfcla!hpfcrg!fokker!poe@tektronix
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 87 16:27:23 mdt
Subject: Wish List
Archive-Message-Number: 34

There's a lot we can get out of this mailing list.  My thanks go out
to James for creating it.  Here are some of the things we can share
that might provide ideas, data, tools, etc. useful to all of us:

   1) Ship designs.  Everyone's done a few.  Everyone wishes they
      had more.  (Ok, so it's tough to post pretty pictures.)
   2) Vehicle designs.  I use Striker for mine.  An Empire of hundreds
      of stars only having generic air/rafts, Mark I AFV's, etc.
      is slightly ridiculous.
   3) Rule changes/modifications/ideas.
   4) Adventures.

I'll post a couple of adventures just to get the ball rolling.
Improvisation and modification is encouraged with anything I post.

Thanks,
Daryl




-------- TML Message #35 --------

From: reed!percival!bucket!leonard@tektronix
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 87 18:05:20 PDT
Subject: Traveller Sector list
Archive-Message-Number: 35

Sector names and co-ordinates (Core = 0,0)

 Y  X name(s)
- -5 -9 Stinj Tianz{zh}
- -5 -8 Bliardlie{zh}
- -5 -7 Zhiensh{zh}
- -5 -6 Savria{zh}
- -5 -5 Datsatl{zh}
- -5 -4 Ianshaplzdier{zh}
- -5 -3 Zhiaqrqiats{zh}
- -5 -2 Rzakki{va}
- -5 -1 Listanaya{va}
- -5  0 
- -5  1 
- -5  2 
- -5  3 
- -5  4 
- -5  5 
- -5  6 
- -5  7 
- -5  8 
- -4 -9 Viajlefliez{zh}
- -4 -8 Bleblqansh{zh}
- -4 -7 Driasera{zh}
- -4 -6 Dalchie Jdatl{zh}
- -4 -5 Chit Botshti{zh}
- -4 -4 Ghoekhnael{va}|Anzsidiadl{zh}
- -4 -3 Ksinanirz{va}|Zheranzanj{zh}
- -4 -2 Zao Kfeng Ig Grilokh{va}
- -4 -1 Knaeleng{va}
- -4  0 Kharrthon{va}
- -4  1 Oeghz Vaerrghr{va}
- -4  2 Kfazz Ghik{va}
- -4  3 
- -4  4 
- -4  5 
- -4  6 
- -4  7 
- -4  8 
- -3 -9 Brieplanz{zh}
- -3 -8 Sidiadi{zh}
- -3 -7 Zdiedeiant{zh}
- -3 -6 Stiatlchepr{zh}
- -3 -5 Itvikiastaf{zh}
- -3 -4 Khoellighz{va}|Tlabrieish{zh}
- -3 -3 Dhuerorrg{va}|Tazhdapi{zh}
- -3 -2 Ngathksirz{va}
- -3 -1 Fa Dzaets{va}
- -3  0 Gzaefueg{va}
- -3  1 Lloellerz{va}
- -3  2 Trenchans|Rukhs Dall){va}
- -3  3 Ktiin'gzat{kk}
- -3  4 Mugheen't{kk}
- -3  5 Grikr!ng{kk}
- -3  6 Ukaarriit!!b{kk}
- -3  7 Kring Noor{kk}
- -3  8 Mbil!!gh{kk}
- -2 -9 Pliabriebl{zh}
- -2 -8 Eiaplial{zh}
- -2 -7 Zhodane|Zhdant{zh}
- -2 -6 Tienspevnekr{zh}
- -2 -5 Ziafrplians{zh}
- -2 -4 Gvurrdon{va}|Briakqra'{zh}
- -2 -3 Tuglikki{va}|Dravr{zh}
- -2 -2 Provence
- -2 -1 The Windhorn
- -2  0 Meshan
- -2  1 Mendan
- -2  2 Amdukan
- -2  3 Ingukrax{kk}
- -2  4 Gn'hk'r{kk}
- -2  5 Gur{kk}
- -2  6 Un'k!!k'ng{kk}
- -2  7 Xaagr{kk}
- -2  8 Eekrookrigz{kk}
- -1 -9 Tsadra Davr{zh}
- -1 -8 Tsadra{zh}
- -1 -7 Yiklerdanzh{zh}
- -1 -6 Far Frontiers|Afachtiabr{zh}
- -1 -5 Foreven|Iakr{zh}
- -1 -4 Spinward Marches|Tloql{zh}
- -1 -3 Deneb|Nieklsdia{zh}
- -1 -2 Corridor
- -1 -1 Vland
- -1  0 Lishun
- -1  1 Antares
- -1  2 The Empty Quarter
- -1  3 Star's End
- -1  4 Gh!hken{kk}
- -1  5 Ruupiin{kk}
- -1  6 Raakaan{kk}
- -1  7 Uuk{kk}
- -1  8 Gnaa Iimb'kr{kk}
 0 -9 Chiep Zhez{zh}
 0 -8 Astron|Shiants{zh}
 0 -7 Fulani|Chtedria{zh}
 0 -6 Vanguard Reaches|Telehfaeikh{as}|Steblenzh{zh}
 0 -5 The Beyond|Lerlairlaii{as}|Zhdiakltlatl{zh}
 0 -4 Trojan Reach|Hlaoirlpahaurl{as}|Idrflanta{zh}
 0 -3 Reft Sector|Bransakral{zh}
 0 -2 Gushemege
 0 -1 Dagudashag
 0  0 Core
 0  1 Fornast
 0  2 Ley Sector
 0  3 Gateway|Marantha-Alkahest{jg}
 0  4 Luretiir!girr{kk}
 0  5 X'kug{kk}
 0  6 Kilong{kk}
 0  7 Bar'kakr{kk}
 0  8 Mighabohk{kk}
 1 -9 
 1 -8 Theta Borealis
 1 -7 Theron|Iykhaiser{as}
 1 -6 Iphigenaia|Kyatulyare'{as}
 1 -5 Touchstone|Weasuirlaoa{as}
 1 -4 Riftspan Reaches|Iiyoihakh{as}
 1 -3 Verge|Khtiyhkokaeiw{as}
 1 -2 Ilelish
 1 -1 Zarushagar
 1  0 Massila
 1  1 Delphi
 1  2 Glimmerdrift Reaches
 1  3 Crucis Margin
 1  4 Kaa G!'kul{kk}
 1  5 Gzirr!k'l{kk}
 1  6 K'trekreer{kk}
 1  7 Nuughe{kk}
 1  8 N!!krumbiix{kk}
 2 -9 
 2 -8 Khaeaw{as}
 2 -7 Faoheiroi'iyhao{as}
 2 -6 Ftaoiyekyu{as}
 2 -5 Afawahisa{as}
 2 -4 Hlakhoi{as}
 2 -3 Ealiyasiyw{as}
 2 -2 Reaver's Deep|Aeitle Sakh{as}
 2 -1 Diabei
 2  0 Diaspora
 2  1 Old Expanses
 2  2 Hinterworlds
 2  3 Leonidea
 2  4 Extolian|Krurrihkugr{kk}
 2  5 Ricenden{hv}|Gnoghikt!{kk}
 2  6 Blaskon{hv}|Okteekrul{kk}
 2  7 Nooq{hv}|Hkimbiipam{kk}
 2  8 Gzektixk{kk}
 3 -9 
 3 -8 Hkakhaeaw{as}
 3 -7 Esai'yo{as}
 3 -6 Waroatahe{as}
 3 -5 Karleaya{as}
 3 -4 Staihaia'yo{as}
 3 -3 Iwahfuah{as}
 3 -2 Dark Nebula|I'aheako{as}
 3 -1 Magyar
 3  0 Solomani Rim
 3  1 Alpha Crucis
 3  2 Spica
 3  3 Phlask{hv}
 3  4 Centrax{hv}
 3  5 Wrenton{hv}
 3  6 Folgore{hv}
 3  7 Avereguar{hv}
 3  8 
 4 -9 
 4 -8 Yahehwe{as}
 4 -7 Kefiykhta{as}
 4 -6 Heakhafaw{as}
 4 -5 Etakhasoa{as}
 4 -4 Aktifao{as}
 4 -3 Uistilrao{as}
 4 -2 Ustral Quadrant|Ftahtuak{as}
 4 -1 
 4  0 ?
 4  1 Neworld
 4  2 Langere{hv}
 4  3 Drakken{hv}
 4  4 Lorspane{hv}
 4  5 Porlock{hv}
 4  6 Kidunal
 4  7 Treece
 4  8 
 5 -9 
 5 -8 Ohieraoi{as}
 5 -7 Fahreahluis{as}
 5 -6 Hfiywitir{as}
 5 -5 Irlaftalea{as}
 5 -4 Teahloarifu{as}
 5 -3 Ahkiweahi'{as}
 5 -2 Banners|Iyiyukhtoi'{as}
 5 -1 
 5  0 
 5  1 Hadji
 5  2 Storr
 5  3 Mikhail
 5  4 Darret
 5  5 Ataurre
 5  6 Katoonah
 5  7 Uytal
 5  8 
 6 -9 
 6 -8 
 6 -7 
 6 -6 
 6 -5 
 6 -4 
 6 -3 
 6 -2 
 6 -1 
 6  0 
 6  1 Rimreach
 6  2 Phlange
 6  3 Tracerie
 6  4 
 6  5 
 6  6 
 6  7 
 6  8 

Mutilple names for the same sector are seperated by |
The sectors with ? for a name are sectors that I have some info for (usually
just a subsector name found on a map of an adjoining sector)
Non-Imperial names are followed by a code enlosed in {}
Code:
as Aslan
hv Hiver
kk K'kree
va Vargr
zh Zhodani
jg Judges' Guild (a special case)

There is a major conflict between the Judge's Guild maps and the Atlas of the
Imperium. I have compared both and star positions don't even match! <sigh>
There is also a naming conflict:

Judges' Guild
Gateway Quadrant  +----------------------+-------------------+
                  |      Ley Sector      | Marantha-Alkahest |
                  +----------------------+-------------------+
                  | Glimmerdrift Reaches |   Crucis Margin   |
                  +----------------------+-------------------+

Imperial maps
un-named quadrant +----------------------+-------------------+
                  |      Ley Sector      |      Gateway      |
                  +----------------------+-------------------+
                  | Glimmerdrift Reaches |   Crucis Margin   |
                  +----------------------+-------------------+

-------- TML Message #36 --------

Date: 30 Jul 87 08:21 EST
From: DAVIS JONATHAN E             <gatech!seismo!steinmetz!csbvax!DAVISJE@tektronix>
Subject: Jackel Class - Destroyer design
Archive-Message-Number: 36


Date: 30-JUL-1987 08:11
>From: Jon Davis
Sender: DAVISJE
Subject: Jackel Class - Destroyer design
To: edison!uvacs!ncsu!mcnc!decvax!ihnp4!tektronix!dadla!traveller@kbsvax@smtp@tcpgateway
- --------

Jackel Class

Pursuit Destroyer DF-C126BF2-950000-06009-0  MCr 2150.33  3000 tons
	Batteries bearing     1      6  2    TL=15
        Batteries             1      6  2    Crew = 47

Passengers=0 Low Berths=0 Cargo=249 Fuel=960 EP=360 Agility=6  Troops=0

	Tonnage:	3000 tons (standard).
	Crew:		11 officers, 36 ratings.
	Performance:	Jump-2. 6-G. Power Plant-C. 360 EP. Agility 6.
	Electronics:	Model/6fib computer.
	Hardpoints:	Two fifty ton weapons bay and ten hardpoints.
	Armaments:	Two fifty ton missile bays. Eight triple
			fusion gun turrets.
	Defenses:	Armored hull (factor-9).  Two triple sandcaster
			turrets firing as one battery.
	Craft:		One 95 ton shuttle.
	Fuel Treatment:	Fuel scoops installed with purification plant.
	Cost:		MCr 2687.92 standard. MCr 2150.33 in quantity.
	Construction:	34 months.


- --------



-------- TML Message #37 --------

From: hplabs!hpfcla!hpfcrg!fokker!poe@tektronix
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 87 10:29:19 mdt
Subject: Adventure:  Solar Flare
Archive-Message-Number: 37


Adventure:  Solar Flare

Setting:  200-ton Yacht "Solar  Flare";  Vehicles  secretly  removed and
replaced  with  radioactives;  Cargo as given on  manifest (5 tons Mech.
Parts, 5 tons  Radioactives,  2 tons Vacc  Suits);  Beam Laser in single
turret.

Background:  An  extended-range  yacht  (through  the  miracle  of L-Hyd
tanks)  owned  by  an  experienced   diplomat  is  passing  through  the
subsector, carrying a load of cargo and assorted  passengers,  including
the party.

Details:  Phineas  Ravel, the diplomat,  accompanied by Faber Tipps, his
assistant,  have just  returned  from a summit to help resolve the Fokex
situation.  The planet Fokex was recently the site of a bloody  coup, in
which a psionic  dictator rose to power with the use of nuclear  weapons
(from an unknown  source).  The planet is now a home to pirates  and the
planetary  defense  forces  frequently  seize and plummet  trade  ships.
Fokex lies near a major trade route.
    Ravel thinks the situation has been resolved but Tipps knows better.
If  questioned,  he will mention  that he thinks the nukes came from the
nearby  planet  Wolem,  which  has been  militarily  maneuvering  and is
suspected of developing damper technology.

The passengers are a mixed group:
The party
Phineas Ravel--the naive senior diplomat, ship's owner.  Stuffy.
Faber Tipps--his helpful assistant.  Streetwise, mousy.
Dmitri  Zatalin--marine  captain.  Returning home from leave.  An action
    man.
Danielle McCulty--a bureaucrat manager opening Sternmetal sales offices.
    Urges   caution  and  the  safest   solution.  Rather   passive  but
    intelligent.
Vincent   Groff--Merchant.  The  five  tons  of  Mech.  Parts  are  his.
    Untrusting and cautious.
3 Psionic  aliens  (choose  your  favorite):  One scout and two  guards.
    Aloof and not  particularly  talkative.  Trip was paid in advance at
    double normal rates.  Require special diet.

    The passengers  have had all weapons removed  (characters may try to
conceal  small ones, if you like) and stored in the lower level  storage
area.  The lower level and all areas except the  passenger  deck are off
limits to the passengers.
    The  crew has been  assigned  to the ship by the  Imperial  Diplomat
Service.  (However,  the real crew was  bushwacked  and  replaced by the
present crew.)

Adventure:  After  refuelling,  the  ship  spends  4 hours  accelerating
toward what is  supposedly a neutral  planet.  Actually,  the course has
been changed and the ship is heading towards Xuma, a star system one hex
away from Wolem.  Passengers may note that the ship is being shadowed by
a System  Defense  Boat while it is  accelerating  (due to its  improper
course).  After 28 hours in  hyperspace,  the  ship  returns  to  normal
space.  This is a day too soon.  The portals  are found to be sealed and
the lifts shut down.  The following message comes over the intercom:

  "This ship and its contents are now property of Xuman Independence
  Front.  Ask no questions--they will be ignored.  Any attempt to
  escape will be met with death.  You are prisoners and will be
  treated as such."

    The power is then shut off except for life  support and lights.  The
valves are locked, though iris valves can be forced by someone with high
strength.  Manual  verticle  hatches  are  locked  and a  warning  light
indicates that the lower level is  depressurized.  Interior walls can be
cut with  laser  pistol in 8 minutes ,  allowing  access to the  Forward
Storage Compartment.  It contains Vacc Suits and misc.  equipment.

Possibilities:  During the initial discussion of the passengers, Vincent
Groff, the merchant  from Xuma, will be confused, but will not voice his
doubts unless  questioned.  Xuma is a peaceful  planet,  non-violent and
happy.  There is no Xuman Independece Front.  He may recognize a strange
accent in the voice from the  intercom.  Faber  Tipps says the accent is
that of Wolem.  Phineas Ravel  overrules  Tipps, droning on and on about
the threat of  rebellion  where it is least  expected,  etc.  Ravel uses
this  opportunity to voice his views on politics, and unless  someone in
the  party  stops  him, he will  continue  until  the GM gets  tired  of
talking.  Zatalin  quietly  disappears to retreive a laser pistol he has
managed to cache.  Ravel can also retrieve 4 10mm auto snub pistols from
his cabin, if anyone  thinks to remind him.  McCulty  urges  everyone to
remain calm and quiet.  The aliens  appear to be locked in their  cabin.
By getting to the vacc suits in the the forward storage compartment, the
passengers can open the manual verticle hatches and gain entrance to the
lower  level.  The crew there will put up cover fire while  they move to
the Ship's Boat, which they use to escape.  Zatalin thinks the fight was
won too easily.  If the cargo and vehicle  bays are  searched,  they are
found  to be  full  of  radioactives.  The  load  in  the  cargo  bay is
protected by an ablative shield, which is very unusual.  When the Ship's
Boat leaves the Yacht, the Yacht is attacked by a nearby X-boat  Tender,
which  may be seen  only  from the  bridge  and by those in  space.  The
Tender's  shots  ruin the  maneuver  drives  and  several  tons of fuel.
Additional  shots hit the Ship's Boat,  killing the escaping  terrorists
there.  (They  were  considered  expendable  by those who  planned  this
affair.)  The yacht does  preprogrammed  return fire, hitting the Tender
and driving it off.  (This was planned by the Tender.  If the passengers
discuss  their easy victory,  someone may suggest that the Tender's fire
control  was hit).  The ship is now locked on a  collision  course  with
Xuma with  insufficient  fuel for jump and ruined maneuver  drives.  The
Ship's Boat floats nearby its distance from the Yacht increasing slowly.
    The  passengers  feel a slight  lurch,  which is the cargo being
automatically jettisoned.

Solutions:

1) The remaining fuel can be jettisoned,  causing a hyperbolic spin into
space.  If a rescue  message is sent, the  Tender  will  return  and the
players  will have to think quick before it finishes the job.  (Xuma has
no navy.)  The aliens, if asked, can  psionically  contact  help on Xuma
and get everyone to the planet.

2) The Ship's Boat can be retrieved by a spacer and  jury-rigged  by the
appropriate  people to pull the yacht into an orbit,  though good pilots
are needed for this operation!

     In any case, the rear cargo has been  jettisoned  and has landed on
Xuma,  where the party  ends up.  The  radioactives  leave a real  mess.
Passengers  may  theorize  that that was the  whole  point--to  poison a
random  city on Xuma.  Others  theorize  Wolem wants to ruin Xuma to cut
the trade route,  though this seems to be a difficult  way of reducing a
planet.
     The actual reason for the  radioactives is to test whether Xuma has
nuclear damper  technology,  which could be quickly used to clean up the
mess.  It turns out they don't.  If the players mention this to Ravel or
Tipps, naval forces will be called in that will stop a planned invasion.
If the players  don't  realize it, Xuma is soon  invaded and the players
will have to fight it out or be captured.  But that's another story.






-------- TML Message #38 --------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 87 12:32:15 PDT
From: michaels@tekgvs.TEK.COM (Michael D. Smith)
Archive-Message-Number: 38

Greetings,

Some questions have arisen lately:

1. How accurate are the ship diagrams shown in the books?

    The book indicates the staterooms require 56 cubic
    meters, yet most ships' diagrams show a stateroom
    has a floor space of 3 meters x 3 meters.
    With a 2.5 meter high ceiling, those staterooms 
    would only be occupying 22.5 cubic meters.
    
    Assuming a 2.5 meter high ceiling, a typical
    stateroom should be 4 meters x 5 meters 
    (the remaining 6 cubic meters could be used for 
    plumbing, air, & electrical).

2. How do you increase the skill level for a robot?

    Page 35 of Book 8 says that skills above level 4
    can not be bought but can be learned by the robot.
    It also says that the information on how this is
    done is in the URP chapter.  Well ...  I haven't
    found this information in Book 8 and it is 
    definitely not in the 3 pages of the URP chapter.


3. Should the additional strength & endurance gained by battle dress
    be used when computing damage taken by the individual?

    If so, is the damage removed first from the battle dress
    or is the damage shared between the person and the battle dress?



Thanks for the help,

- --------------------------------------------------
The Best
tektronix!tekgvs!michaels
- --------------------------------------------------


-------- TML Message #39 --------

Subject: Inaccurate Deck Plans???  Not really...
Date: 31 Jul 87 13:08:00 PDT (Fri)
From: James T. Perkins <jamesp>
Archive-Message-Number: 39


> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 87 12:32:15 PDT
> From: michaels@tekgvs.TEK.COM (Michael D. Smith)
> To: traveller@dadla

> 1. How accurate are the ship diagrams shown in the books?

>     The book indicates the staterooms require 56 cubic
>     meters, yet most ships' diagrams show a stateroom
>     has a floor space of 3 meters x 3 meters.
>     With a 2.5 meter high ceiling, those staterooms 
>     would only be occupying 22.5 cubic meters.
>     
>     Assuming a 2.5 meter high ceiling, a typical
>     stateroom should be 4 meters x 5 meters 
>     (the remaining 6 cubic meters could be used for 
>     plumbing, air, & electrical).

Hmm.  Guess I better whip out my:

	Supplement 7, Traders and Gunboats
	Copyright 1980, by Game Designers' Workshop, Inc.
	Page 5.

							"STARSHIP DECK PLANS
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	"The creation of starship deck plan data is based on the assumption
that one ton of mass displacement equals fourteen cubic meters.  The starship
displacement ton is derived from the volume of one ton of liquid hydrogen, the
material used as fuel for starships.
	"Since the square grid scale used for deck plans is 1.5 meters [sic]
squares, a ceiling height of three meters means that two floor squares,
extended floor to ceiling equals four 1.5 meter cubes or about 14 cubic meters
(1.5x1.5x1.5x4=13.5 cubic meters), or one ton.  If a 100-ton ship were mapped
as a one-level square, it would have two hundred grid squares within.
	"Allowances of approximately 10% (plus or minus) were made in most
areas to allow for proper access and representation of specific items within
the ship.  For example, crew quarters call for four tons per person (in Book
2); the actual tonnage allocated to staterooms stands at less than that, but
the remaining area is take [sic] up in communal facilities such as galley,
mess, and recreation lounges.
	"In addition, a limited volume of passages has been added to some
starships.  Passages and access ways which have no other use may be safely
added to a ship without affecting its volume or displacement for construction
purposes; such additional passages should amount to no more than an additional
10% of the total ship volume."

So this means that a 200-ton ship can actually look like (200 tons + 10%
fudge-factor) + 10% hallways = 200 tons * 1.1 * 1.1 = 242 tons on a deck
plan.  Even the miniscule 100-ton Type S Scout ship gets another ~21 tons
out of this arrangement(!)

 _	___
| |    / _ \   James T. Perkins, jamesp@dadla.TEK.COM, 629-1149
| |__ | |_| |  Tektronix Logic Analyzers, DAS System Software, Display
|____||_| |_|  MS 92-725, PO Box 4600, Beaverton OR 97075

Killed processes never die... They just go to the big Bit Bicket in the sky.


-------- TML Message #40 --------

Date: Fri, 31 Jul 87 14:31:12 PDT
From: michaels@tekgvs.TEK.COM (Michael D. Smith)
Archive-Message-Number: 40

Subject: Inaccurate Deck Plans???  Not really...

> Date: 31 Jul 87 13:08:00 PDT (Fri)
> From: James T. Perkins <jamesp@dadla>
> 
> > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 87 12:32:15 PDT
> > From: michaels@tekgvs.TEK.COM (Michael D. Smith)
> > To: traveller@dadla
> 
> > 1. How accurate are the ship diagrams shown in the books?
> 
> >     The book indicates the staterooms require 56 cubic
> >     meters, yet most ships' diagrams show a stateroom
> >     has a floor space of 3 meters x 3 meters.
> >     With a 2.5 meter high ceiling, those staterooms 
> >     would only be occupying 22.5 cubic meters.
> >     
> >     Assuming a 2.5 meter high ceiling, a typical
> >     stateroom should be 4 meters x 5 meters 
> >     (the remaining 6 cubic meters could be used for 
> >     plumbing, air, & electrical).
> 
> Hmm.  Guess I better whip out my:
> 
> 	Supplement 7, Traders and Gunboats
> 	Copyright 1980, by Game Designers' Workshop, Inc.
> 	Page 5.
> 
> 							"STARSHIP DECK PLANS
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 	"The creation of starship deck plan data is based on the assumption
> that one ton of mass displacement equals fourteen cubic meters.  The starship
> displacement ton is derived from the volume of one ton of liquid hydrogen, the
> material used as fuel for starships.
> 	"Since the square grid scale used for deck plans is 1.5 meters [sic]
> squares, a ceiling height of three meters means that two floor squares,
> extended floor to ceiling equals four 1.5 meter cubes or about 14 cubic meters
> (1.5x1.5x1.5x4=13.5 cubic meters), or one ton.  If a 100-ton ship were mapped
> as a one-level square, it would have two hundred grid squares within.
> 	"Allowances of approximately 10% (plus or minus) were made in most
> areas to allow for proper access and representation of specific items within
> the ship.  For example, crew quarters call for four tons per person (in Book
> 2); the actual tonnage allocated to staterooms stands at less than that, but
> the remaining area is take [sic] up in communal facilities such as galley,
> mess, and recreation lounges.
> 	"In addition, a limited volume of passages has been added to some
> starships.  Passages and access ways which have no other use may be safely
> added to a ship without affecting its volume or displacement for construction
> purposes; such additional passages should amount to no more than an additional
> 10% of the total ship volume."
> 
>  _	___
> | |    / _ \   James T. Perkins, jamesp@dadla.TEK.COM, 629-1149
> | |__ | |_| |  Tektronix Logic Analyzers, DAS System Software, Display
> |____||_| |_|  MS 92-725, PO Box 4600, Beaverton OR 97075
> 

Thanks for the quick response and clarification.

The above indicates that 1 ton takes 2 grid squares with a 3 meter
ceiling.

Why a 3 meter ceiling?  This seems quite high for humaniti?


- --------------------------------------------------
The Best
tektronix!tekgvs!michaels
- --------------------------------------------------


-------- TML Message #41 --------

Date: 31 Jul 87 18:07 EST
From: DAVIS JONATHAN E <DAVISJE@ge-crd.arpa>
Subject: Condor Class - System Defense Boat
Archive-Message-Number: 41


Date: 31-JUL-1987 08:48
From: Jon Davis
Sender: DAVISJE
Subject: Condor Class - System Defense Boat
To: traveller%dadla.TEK.COM@RELAY.CS.NET@SMTP@TCPGATEWAY
- --------
This ship appeared in the Adventure Class Ships, Vol. 1 by FASA.
Copyright 1981, by FASA

Condor Class

Systen Defense    DA-5106AF2-F00000-46309-0  MCr 322.32  500 tons
Boat              Batteries bearing 111 1    TL=15
                  Batteries         111 1    Crew = 11

Passengers=0 Low Berths=2 Cargo=45 Fuel=50 EP=50  Agility=6  Troops=7

	Tonnage:	500 tons (standard).
	Crew:		3 officers, 8 ratings. 7 troops.
	Performance:	Jump-0. 6-G. Power Plant-A. 50 EP. Agility 6.
	Electronics:	Model/6fib computer.
	Hardpoints:	One fifty ton weapons bay and five hardpoints.
	Armaments:	One fifty ton missile bay. One triple beam laser
			turret. Two double fusion gun turrets firing as
			one battery.  Two particle accelerator turrets
			firing as one battery.
	Defenses:	Armored hull (factor-F).
	Craft:		One 20 ton launch.
	Fuel Treatment:	Fuel scoops installed with a double capacity 
			purification plant.
	Cost:		MCr 402.9 standard. MCr 322.32 in quantity.
	Construction:	10 months.

Comments: The Freedonian Condor class system defense boat is a very 
heavily armed and armored fighting craft.  Built to give and take 
punishment, the ship fits the system defense boat role perfectly. The
version noted above is primarily built for export to systems friendly
to the ruling Freedonian oligarchy.  Although the exact number of 
ships built and delivered is classified, they are fairly common on
rich or important planets in the Inverness region of the Far Frontiers
Sector.

Details: The first thing one notices when coming aboard a Condor class
ship is the luxurious interior; the facilities and accommodations are 
like that expected on a yacht.  Each crew member has his own large 
stateroom. A large dining room and lounge occupy almost a third of the
upper deck.  The central pillar in the lounge houses fire control for
the fusion gun battery, the particle accelerator battery, and access
to the laser turret.  It also contains the ladder down to the second 
deck.  When the ship is not in action, all of this gear is hidden. The
second deck has extensive communications and detection gear located 
forward.  Midships are the missile bay support areas and the airlocks 
and the EVA prep sections, with the 20 ton launch immediately aft of 
this section.  As SDB Condor class ships are frequently called upon to 
conduct customs searches on incoming ships, the launch and extensive 
EVA equipment helps fulfill this obligation.
	The lower or third deck houses the fuel scoops and purification
plants, the missile bay, and cargo bay.  The fuel refining capability
and storage capacity give Condor class ships a very long operating 
life away from base.  For system defense boats, this is essential.

- --------



-------- TML Message #42 --------

Date: 31 Jul 87 19:23:00 EDT
From: Mark Carroll <carroll@aim.rutgers.edu>
Subject: Traveller Books
Archive-Message-Number: 42


	Hello all, this is my first posting, so bear with me:

	I have the first 5 traveller books, but I've heard up to book
9 mentioned in this group. Could someone send me the listing of the books,
and the titles? 

	Also, noone local seems to deal with Traveller. Can anyone reccoment
someone who deals mail order in the books, along with a phone number?

	Thanks,

		-Mark C. Carroll
- ------


-------- TML Message #43 --------

Subject: Re: Traveller Books
Date: 02 Aug 87 01:48:34 CDT (Sun)
From: Michael Rossow <rossow@umn-cs.arpa>
Archive-Message-Number: 43

This is the list of Traveller stuff published by GDW over the
years that I either had on hand, or have seen around.  The book
numbers may be a little out of sequence, some of this stuff was
from memory.

Game Designers' Workshop does sell their stuff mail-order.  You
could write to them for a catalog of what they are currently
selling.  Their address is: P.O. Box 1646, Bloomington, IL  61702.

						-Mike

Book 0: Introduction to Traveller
Book 1: Characters
Book 2: Starships
Book 3: Worlds and Adventure
Book 4: Mercenary
Book 5: High Guard
Book 6: Scouts
Book 7: Merchant Prince
Book 8: Robots
Supplement 1: 1001 Characters
Supplement 2: Animal Encounters
Supplement 3: The Spinward Marches
Supplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium
Supplement 5: Lightning Class Cruisers
Supplement 6: 76 Patrons
Supplement 7: Traders and Gunboats
Supplement 8: Library Data (A-M)
Supplement 9: Fighting Ships
Supplement 11: Library Data (N-Z)
Supplement 10: The Solomani Rim
Supplement 12: Forms & Charts
Adventure 1: The Kinunir
Adventure 2: Research Station Gamma
Adventure 3: Twilight's Peak
Adventure 4: Leviathan
Adventure 5: Trillion Credit Squadron
Adventure 6: Expedition to Zhodane
Adventure 7: Broadsword
Adventure 8: Prison Planet
Adventure 9: Nomads of the World Ocean
Adventure 10: Safari Ship
Adventure 11: Murder on Arcturus Station
Adventure 12: Secret of the Ancients
Adventure 13: Signal GK
Double Adventure 1: Shadows/Annic Nova
Double Adventure 2: Across the Bright Face/Mission on Mithril
Double Adventure 3: The Argon Gambit/Death Station
Double Adventure 4: Marooned/Marooned Alone
Double Adventure 5: Chamax Plague/Horde
Double Adventure 6: Divine Intervention/Night of Conquest
Alien Module: Aslan
Alien Module: K'kree
Alien Module: Vargr
Alien Module: Droyne
Alien Module: Zhodani
Alien Module: Hivers
Alien Module: Solomani
Boxed Module 1: Tarsus
Atlas of the Imperium
The Spinward Marches Campaign
Alien Realms
The Traveller Adventure

Various versions of Traveller
- -----------------------------
Basic Traveller
Starter Traveller
Deluxe Traveller
The Traveller Book
MegaTraveller (forthcoming)

Boxed Games
- -----------
Mayday
Snapshot
Azhanti High Lightning
Fifth Frontier War
Invasion: Earth


-------- TML Message #44 --------

From: reed!percival!bucket!leonard@tektronix
Date: Sun,  2 Aug 87 16:43:15 PDT
Subject: Traveller Sector list
Archive-Message-Number: 44

(we've been having mailer problems and this apparently got lost. If it did
get out, sorry to be wasting the space)
Sector names and co-ordinates (Core = 0,0)

 Y  X name(s)
- -5 -9 Stinj Tianz{zh}
- -5 -8 Bliardlie{zh}
- -5 -7 Zhiensh{zh}
- -5 -6 Savria{zh}
- -5 -5 Datsatl{zh}
- -5 -4 Ianshaplzdier{zh}
- -5 -3 Zhiaqrqiats{zh}
- -5 -2 Rzakki{va}
- -5 -1 Listanaya{va}
- -5  0 
- -5  1 
- -5  2 
- -5  3 
- -5  4 
- -5  5 
- -5  6 
- -5  7 
- -5  8 
- -4 -9 Viajlefliez{zh}
- -4 -8 Bleblqansh{zh}
- -4 -7 Driasera{zh}
- -4 -6 Dalchie Jdatl{zh}
- -4 -5 Chit Botshti{zh}
- -4 -4 Ghoekhnael{va}|Anzsidiadl{zh}
- -4 -3 Ksinanirz{va}|Zheranzanj{zh}
- -4 -2 Zao Kfeng Ig Grilokh{va}
- -4 -1 Knaeleng{va}
- -4  0 Kharrthon{va}
- -4  1 Oeghz Vaerrghr{va}
- -4  2 Kfazz Ghik{va}
- -4  3 
- -4  4 
- -4  5 
- -4  6 
- -4  7 
- -4  8 
- -3 -9 Brieplanz{zh}
- -3 -8 Sidiadi{zh}
- -3 -7 Zdiedeiant{zh}
- -3 -6 Stiatlchepr{zh}
- -3 -5 Itvikiastaf{zh}
- -3 -4 Khoellighz{va}|Tlabrieish{zh}
- -3 -3 Dhuerorrg{va}|Tazhdapi{zh}
- -3 -2 Ngathksirz{va}
- -3 -1 Fa Dzaets{va}
- -3  0 Gzaefueg{va}
- -3  1 Lloellerz{va}
- -3  2 Trenchans|Rukhs Dall){va}
- -3  3 Ktiin'gzat{kk}
- -3  4 Mugheen't{kk}
- -3  5 Grikr!ng{kk}
- -3  6 Ukaarriit!!b{kk}
- -3  7 Kring Noor{kk}
- -3  8 Mbil!!gh{kk}
- -2 -9 Pliabriebl{zh}
- -2 -8 Eiaplial{zh}
- -2 -7 Zhodane|Zhdant{zh}
- -2 -6 Tienspevnekr{zh}
- -2 -5 Ziafrplians{zh}
- -2 -4 Gvurrdon{va}|Briakqra'{zh}
- -2 -3 Tuglikki{va}|Dravr{zh}
- -2 -2 Provence
- -2 -1 The Windhorn
- -2  0 Meshan
- -2  1 Mendan
- -2  2 Amdukan
- -2  3 Ingukrax{kk}
- -2  4 Gn'hk'r{kk}
- -2  5 Gur{kk}
- -2  6 Un'k!!k'ng{kk}
- -2  7 Xaagr{kk}
- -2  8 Eekrookrigz{kk}
- -1 -9 Tsadra Davr{zh}
- -1 -8 Tsadra{zh}
- -1 -7 Yiklerdanzh{zh}
- -1 -6 Far Frontiers|Afachtiabr{zh}
- -1 -5 Foreven|Iakr{zh}
- -1 -4 Spinward Marches|Tloql{zh}
- -1 -3 Deneb|Nieklsdia{zh}
- -1 -2 Corridor
- -1 -1 Vland
- -1  0 Lishun
- -1  1 Antares
- -1  2 The Empty Quarter
- -1  3 Star's End
- -1  4 Gh!hken{kk}
- -1  5 Ruupiin{kk}
- -1  6 Raakaan{kk}
- -1  7 Uuk{kk}
- -1  8 Gnaa Iimb'kr{kk}
 0 -9 Chiep Zhez{zh}
 0 -8 Astron|Shiants{zh}
 0 -7 Fulani|Chtedria{zh}
 0 -6 Vanguard Reaches|Telehfaeikh{as}|Steblenzh{zh}
 0 -5 The Beyond|Lerlairlaii{as}|Zhdiakltlatl{zh}
 0 -4 Trojan Reach|Hlaoirlpahaurl{as}|Idrflanta{zh}
 0 -3 Reft Sector|Bransakral{zh}
 0 -2 Gushemege
 0 -1 Dagudashag
 0  0 Core
 0  1 Fornast
 0  2 Ley Sector
 0  3 Gateway|Marantha-Alkahest{jg}
 0  4 Luretiir!girr{kk}
 0  5 X'kug{kk}
 0  6 Kilong{kk}
 0  7 Bar'kakr{kk}
 0  8 Mighabohk{kk}
 1 -9 
 1 -8 Theta Borealis
 1 -7 Theron|Iykhaiser{as}
 1 -6 Iphigenaia|Kyatulyare'{as}
 1 -5 Touchstone|Weasuirlaoa{as}
 1 -4 Riftspan Reaches|Iiyoihakh{as}
 1 -3 Verge|Khtiyhkokaeiw{as}
 1 -2 Ilelish
 1 -1 Zarushagar
 1  0 Massila
 1  1 Delphi
 1  2 Glimmerdrift Reaches
 1  3 Crucis Margin
 1  4 Kaa G!'kul{kk}
 1  5 Gzirr!k'l{kk}
 1  6 K'trekreer{kk}
 1  7 Nuughe{kk}
 1  8 N!!krumbiix{kk}
 2 -9 
 2 -8 Khaeaw{as}
 2 -7 Faoheiroi'iyhao{as}
 2 -6 Ftaoiyekyu{as}
 2 -5 Afawahisa{as}
 2 -4 Hlakhoi{as}
 2 -3 Ealiyasiyw{as}
 2 -2 Reaver's Deep|Aeitle Sakh{as}
 2 -1 Diabei
 2  0 Diaspora
 2  1 Old Expanses
 2  2 Hinterworlds
 2  3 Leonidea
 2  4 Extolian|Krurrihkugr{kk}
 2  5 Ricenden{hv}|Gnoghikt!{kk}
 2  6 Blaskon{hv}|Okteekrul{kk}
 2  7 Nooq{hv}|Hkimbiipam{kk}
 2  8 Gzektixk{kk}
 3 -9 
 3 -8 Hkakhaeaw{as}
 3 -7 Esai'yo{as}
 3 -6 Waroatahe{as}
 3 -5 Karleaya{as}
 3 -4 Staihaia'yo{as}
 3 -3 Iwahfuah{as}
 3 -2 Dark Nebula|I'aheako{as}
 3 -1 Magyar
 3  0 Solomani Rim
 3  1 Alpha Crucis
 3  2 Spica
 3  3 Phlask{hv}
 3  4 Centrax{hv}
 3  5 Wrenton{hv}
 3  6 Folgore{hv}
 3  7 Avereguar{hv}
 3  8 
 4 -9 
 4 -8 Yahehwe{as}
 4 -7 Kefiykhta{as}
 4 -6 Heakhafaw{as}
 4 -5 Etakhasoa{as}
 4 -4 Aktifao{as}
 4 -3 Uistilrao{as}
 4 -2 Ustral Quadrant|Ftahtuak{as}
 4 -1 
 4  0 ?
 4  1 Neworld
 4  2 Langere{hv}
 4  3 Drakken{hv}
 4  4 Lorspane{hv}
 4  5 Porlock{hv}
 4  6 Kidunal
 4  7 Treece
 4  8 
 5 -9 
 5 -8 Ohieraoi{as}
 5 -7 Fahreahluis{as}
 5 -6 Hfiywitir{as}
 5 -5 Irlaftalea{as}
 5 -4 Teahloarifu{as}
 5 -3 Ahkiweahi'{as}
 5 -2 Banners|Iyiyukhtoi'{as}
 5 -1 
 5  0 
 5  1 Hadji
 5  2 Storr
 5  3 Mikhail
 5  4 Darret
 5  5 Ataurre
 5  6 Katoonah
 5  7 Uytal
 5  8 
 6 -9 
 6 -8 
 6 -7 
 6 -6 
 6 -5 
 6 -4 
 6 -3 
 6 -2 
 6 -1 
 6  0 
 6  1 Rimreach
 6  2 Phlange
 6  3 Tracerie
 6  4 
 6  5 
 6  6 
 6  7 
 6  8 

Mutilple names for the same sector are seperated by |
The sectors with ? for a name are sectors that I have some info for (usually
just a subsector name found on a map of an adjoining sector)
Non-Imperial names are followed by a code enlosed in {}
Code:
as Aslan
hv Hiver
kk K'kree
va Vargr
zh Zhodani
jg Judges' Guild (a special case)

There is a major conflict between the Judge's Guild maps and the Atlas of the
Imperium. I have compared both and star positions don't even match! <sigh>
There is also a naming conflict:

Judges' Guild
Gateway Quadrant  +----------------------+-------------------+
                  |      Ley Sector      | Marantha-Alkahest |
                  +----------------------+-------------------+
                  | Glimmerdrift Reaches |   Crucis Margin   |
                  +----------------------+-------------------+

Imperial maps
un-named quadrant +----------------------+-------------------+
                  |      Ley Sector      |      Gateway      |
                  +----------------------+-------------------+
                  | Glimmerdrift Reaches |   Crucis Margin   |
                  +----------------------+-------------------+


-------- TML Message #45 --------

Date:  3 Aug 87 10:24 EST
From: DAVIS JONATHAN E <DAVISJE@ge-crd.arpa>
Subject: Tantilin Class - Heavy freighter design
Archive-Message-Number: 45


Date:  3-AUG-1987 10:17
From: Jon Davis (davisje@ge-crd.arpa)
Sender: DAVISJE
Subject: Tantilin Class - Heavy freighter design
To: traveller%dadla.TEK.COM@RELAY.CS.NET@SMTP@TCPGATEWAY
- --------


Tantilin Class

Merchant          MH-A622332-040000-40003-0  MCr 457.73 1000 tons
	Batteries bearing     2     4   4    TL   = 13
        Batteries             2     4   4    Crew = 20

Passengers=20 Low Berths=40 Cargo=350 Fuel=230 EP=30 Agility=1 Troops=0

	Tonnage:	1000 tons (standard).
	Crew:		20.
	Performance:	Jump-2. 2-G. Power Plant-3. 30 EP. Agility 1.
	Electronics:	Model/3 computer.
	Hardpoints:	Ten hardpoints.
	Armaments:	Four triple beam laser turrets firing as four 
			battery. Four triple missile turrets firing as
			four batteries.
	Defenses:	Two triple sandcaster turrets as two batteries.
	Craft:		Two launches.
	Fuel Treatment:	None.
	Cost:		MCr 572.16 standard. MCr 457.73 in quantity.
	Construction:	27 months.

Comments:  This well-armed and defended freighter will deter all but the
most dangerous of maruaders and pirates, yet provides a modest and 
comfortable travelling environment for its passengers.  Its large cargo
capacity provides adequate space onboard for large bulk cargos, such as
bulk food, water, and petroleum transportation.

- --------



-------- TML Message #46 --------

Subject: Re: Tantilin Class - Heavy freighter design
Date: 03 Aug 87 15:39:41 PDT (Mon)
From: James T. Perkins <jamesp>
Archive-Message-Number: 46



> Date:  3-AUG-1987 10:17
> From: Jon Davis (davisje@ge-crd.arpa)
> Subject: Tantilin Class - Heavy freighter design
> To: traveller%dadla.TEK.COM@RELAY.CS.NET@SMTP@TCPGATEWAY

> Tantilin Class

> bulk food, water, and petroleum transportation.
	     ^^^^^

I can understand the need for inter-system food transportation, and
inter-system petroleum transportation, but inter-system WATER transportation?

Give me a 600-ton non-starship and I'll take your water-merchant on, using the
large quantities of ice found anywhere there are planets, moons, or asteroid
belts.  I'll run you out of business faster than you can say "Trade"

I personally don't believe there is an economic justification for ice-pirates or
"V"-style "visitors". :-) :-) :-)

 _	___
| |    / _ \   James T. Perkins, jamesp@dadla.TEK.COM, 629-1149
| |__ | |_| |  Tektronix Logic Analyzers, DAS System Software, Display
|____||_| |_|  MS 92-725, PO Box 4600, Beaverton OR 97075

Killed processes never die... They just go to the big Bit Bicket in the sky.


-------- TML Message #47 --------

Date:  4 Aug 87 08:44 EST
From: DAVIS JONATHAN E <DAVISJE@ge-crd.arpa>
Subject: Re: Tantilin Class (or Let's talk about water....)
Archive-Message-Number: 47


Date:  4-AUG-1987 08:44
From: Jon Davis
Sender: DAVISJE
Subject: Re: Tantilin Class (or Let's talk about water....)
To: traveller%dadla.TEK.COM@RELAY.CS.NET@SMTP@TCPGATEWAY
- --------
>Date:  3-AUG-1987 19:18:50.29
>Sender: jamesp%dadla.tek.com@RELAY.CS.NET@SMTP@CSBVAX
>Subject: Re: Tantilin Class - Heavy freighter design
>To: DAVISJE@CRDMAIL

>> Date:  3-AUG-1987 10:17
>> From: Jon Davis (davisje@ge-crd.arpa)
>> Subject: Tantilin Class - Heavy freighter design
>> To: traveller%dadla.TEK.COM@RELAY.CS.NET@SMTP@TCPGATEWAY

>> Tantilin Class

>> bulk food, water, and petroleum transportation.
 	      ^^^^^

>I can understand the need for inter-system food transportation, and
>inter-system petroleum transportation, but inter-system WATER transportation?

>Give me a 600-ton non-starship and I'll take your water-merchant on, using the
>large quantities of ice found anywhere there are planets, moons, or asteroid
>belts.  I'll run you out of business faster than you can say "Trade"

I'll agree with you that an inter-system water transport would not 
coexist with a dedicated non-starship operating in a system.  However,
I could argue that there are a large number of frontier outposts which
may not have the same dedicated water support, but would contract out 
for either inter-system or intra-system water delivery for their 
survival.

Given that such a contractual agreement would be economically 
hindering for a long term proposal, a system would eventually hire 
non-starship services for water, provided that a readily convertable
source of water existed in-system.

You must also realize that there is additional expense on obtaining
the water.  The least expensive method of loading the water into a 
ship as cargo is in liquid form.  Pumping mechanisms are cheaper and 
more efficient than chopping up ice.  Liquid water will also fill the 
cargo space bladder most efficiently.  Once the ship is enroute, the 
water can be frozen for easier transport, if desired.  Reheating upon
arrival from the power plant would permit pumping stations to unload
the ship.

>I personally don't believe there is an economic justification for ice-pirates or
>"V"-style "visitors". :-) :-) :-)

Again, it all depends on the economics of getting the water.  Surely a
technologically advanced race as the "Visitors" could get water from 
nearly any system with asteroids and planets with ice caps like you 
mentioned.  Liquid form is the easiest to load.  Therefore, Earth is 
an ideal location for the "visitors" water supply.  Besides, if they 
wanted water they could take fresh water out of the Great Lakes 
since the lakes are suffering from very high water levels...  
All you had to do was ask...

Suffice to say that the Tantilin class transport is equipped to 
transport bulk liquids, either milk, corn syrup, liquid natural gas,
herbicide, or Perrier....  (but hopefully not in the same bladders) :-)

Jon Davis
davisje@ge-crd.arpa

- --------


-------- End of TML Messages --------

